白俄罗斯明斯克“孔子学院日”劲吹中国文化风(1)

Amending ELE example entry

• Voting on: Amending the WT:ELE example entry, specifically the Pronuncation section in the example, to:

百度 参与沙龙的业内人士纷纷表示，沙龙在解答行业疑难问题等方面做出了有效尝试，增强了业内共识，也是一个广结良缘的平台，十分期待此活动的隔周举办。

===Pronunciation===
* Phonetic transcriptions
* Audio files in any relevant dialects
* Rhymes
* Homophones
* Hyphenation

There is confusion generated by the ELE example as it currently reads, since the Pronunciation section order in the example is taken as a policy recommendation by some editors. The proposed change will bring the example into line with current practice, and will promote a more logical sequence by: (1) adding "phonetic transcriptions", which is currently missing from the example, (2) grouping transcriptions and related audio, (3) placing items pertaining to other words (rhymes, homophones) after the items pertaining to the current entry, (4) placing non-pronunciation items included in the section (hyphenation) last in the sequence, and (5) inserting a space after the asterisk bullet (*) per AF preferred format.

• Vote ends: 23:59 1 January 2009 (UTC)
• Vote started: 0:00 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Vote created: EncycloPetey 22:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• Discussion:

  WT:BP#Amending ELE example entry

Support

1. Support EncycloPetey 22:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
2. Support The ELE should represent the "rule" and not the "exception". If every "correct" entry is a "variation" to the rule, then the ELE should be changed. --AZard 03:53, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
3. Support Ivan ?tambuk 06:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
4. Support Bequw → ￠ ? τ 10:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
5. Support. Up to date is always a good idea, and for all the details there are to discuss, this is a better starting point for that discussion. DAVilla 16:27, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
6. Support per DAVilla. —Ruakh_TALK 17:37, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
7. Support --Panda10 17:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
8. Support —Stephen 15:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
9. Support.—msh210? 18:52, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
10. Support Nadando 20:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
11. Support H. (talk) 12:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC) Shouldn’t the relevant templates ({{IPA}}, {{SAMPA}}, (maybe {{enPR}}), {{audio}}, {{rhymes}}, {{hyphenation}} and {{homophones}}) be mentioned somewhere as well? This is a good start.

    I started a discussion in the BP on the homophones template: WT:BP#Amending_ELE_to_Homophones_Template. I'm trying to keep that vote very simple. The ELE already has examples for {{IPA}}, {{SAMPA}}, {{audio}}, and {{rhymes}}. Templates {{enPR}} and {{hyphenation}} are new concepts to the ELE. Something tells me that new concepts will not be simple and straightforward, and will probably need discussions. --AZard 15:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

    The relevant templates should be mentioned somewhere, yes, but not in the simple example outline. That would be too much information for what the example is trying to do. The ELE page has a full section on formatting the Pronunciation section, and Wiktionary:Pronunciation goes into even more detail. This vote does not attempt to address the text in those locations, only the example outline. --EncycloPetey 21:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

12. Reluctant Support — reluctant for exactly the same reasons that led DCDuring to oppose: There should be as little before the definitions as possible because it distracts attention from the core part of the entry, i.e., the definitions. Still support because the amended version is better than the current version. And yes, AZard, the culture should change. -- Gauss 21:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
13. Support Rod (A. Smith) 23:24, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose DCDuring TALK 20:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC) Notwithstanding its merits, this proposal fails to address the extravagant use of valuable above-the-fold space by the Pronunciation section on many of our entries. Approval may serve to further entrench that user-unfriendly extravagance. DCDuring TALK 20:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

   If your fear is warranted, then the culture should change. It should always be a good thing to edit the ELE to conform to the current community standards. Related debates should not be prejudiced. --AZard 16:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Abstain

1. Abstain \Mike 22:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC) Due to the reasons DCDuring mentions I'm not sure if there is any point in adding that structure to the ELE now, and then rework it all and vote again.... So the question to me is how to solve this issue? A template which puts the various elements of the Pronunciation header in a carefully chosen layout? \Mike 22:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

   This vote is the consequence of requiring votes for minor changes to the ELE. Because the community has setup this bureaucracy, votes for minor changes should be common. Whenever there is a new widely-accepted template or format change, the ELE should be updated. Instead, the community has been satisfied with an inaccurate, out of date ELE. --AZard 15:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Decision

• Approved 13-1-1. Changes made to ELE text according to vote. --EncycloPetey 09:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)